Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

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#1 Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:27 am

Credit : http://home.earthlink.net/~desotoairgunners/id208.htm

..." Speaking of hardware; one shooter ( Frank Mendola ) not only had a top notch rifle, scope and bench rest setup; he brought along a portable digital Doppler radar ( I'm not kidding) to measure each pellet's performance as it flew towards the target. Frank is obviously intense about his Bench Rest shooting (some may say borderline bonkers?) but his target scores and overall performance certainly proved to be the days best. I hope Frank comes to shoot some Field Target when we restart those matches. (Sorry, I don't think Doppler aids are allowed in that competition.) " :shock: :lol: :lol:

Hats off for the ingenuity :D

Nb: interesting read - https://www.shootingsoftware.com/doppler.htm
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#2 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Thu Oct 27, 2016 11:36 am

update- am in correspondence with Frank to get his opinion of the Doppler chrono. ; If any questions please type them in the thread and will endeavour to get Frank's response...

I'd like to say a big THANKS to Frank
8-)

---------------------------------------

" I'm Frank - otherwise known as COLDKING -

Ron forwarded me your question about the LabRadar - Well I consider it to be the best invention to come along in awhile--

I use it daily it helps me determine when velocity slows due to leading of the barrel -
Also if other problems may be arising -such as pellet imperfections -
The LabRadar does need to be purchased with the external microphone though -
Because the device isn't as sensitive to air rifles as thought--

Also sometimes the mike needs to be held really close to the muzzle -
But it's truly a fantastic device.
I really was tired of using my standard Chronograph - with sun screens -that had to be critically placed to trigger --
It can be set to take readings at four tracks along the pellets path -
Giving FPS reading at set yardages or meters --
If you have other questions feel free to type me

Kind regards"
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#3 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Thu Oct 27, 2016 12:11 pm

credit: http://www.mylabradar.com/#Contact-us

Do you have any videos that show proper setup and operation?
Yes, we have several videos posted on our YouTube. Search YouTube with the keywords "Labradar Channel" or go to the link below.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWLcaC ... dLZS9BRmKg

My Labradar will not tigger
If your Labradar will not trigger it is because it is not armed (light orange) or it is not "feeling" the muzzle blast. Unless you have a muzzle brake on your weapon your muzzle should be even with the side of the unit. This applies to handguns and rifles. Keep the Trigger Level set at 1.

How do I use Labradar with 22 rimfire, Airguns or Suppressors?
Since there is very little muzzle blast pressure emitted from 22 rimfire, Airguns or suppressed firearms you may need to place Labradar approximately 3 inches in front of the muzzle and approximate 3 inches to the side. If your unit still will not trigger due to the low muzzle blast you can purchase the Air Gun Adapter to assist in triggering the radar.

How does LabRadar work?
LabRadar velocity measurements are based on Continuous Wave Doppler Radar and advanced Digital Signal Processing Technologies.

Where should my muzzle be positioned?
Ideally you should place your muzzle even with the side of the unit and between the top and bottom corners. If you have a muzzle brake you should place it a few inches in front of the radar to prevent the direct muzzle blast from impacting the unit. Be sure to set your Projectile Offset to the correct distance in the preferences menu.

My radar triggers but I do not get a velocity reading.
When you get an error message that the projectile was not acquired it is usually due to poor alignment of the radar or muzzle blast debris interfering with the radar reflecting off of the bullet. To resolve this you can move your muzzle farther forward and farther to the side. Be sure to adjust the Projectile Offset distance when moving farther to the side. You can confirm your alignment by looking through a small diameter tube placed in the sighting notch.

Can Labradar be placed downrange
Labradar is designed to set besides the shooter as it is triggered by the weapon muzzle blast. Currently it is not possible to trigger the radar at a downrange location

Is it Safe to use?
Yes, LabRadar was designed for and is in compliance with the United States FCC Regulations, CE requirements and Canada requirements.

How accurate is it?
LabRadar has an accuracy of 0.1%.

Will it work in the hot, cold, cloudy, sunny, shade or changing light conditions, rain, indoors, outdoors?
Yes, unlike most light sensing chronographs LabRadar is not affected by these environmental conditions.

If you’re not in the center of the radar beam is the accuracy diminished?
No.

Does it work on batteries?
Yes. LabRadar uses 6 AA type batteries. It can also be powered from an external USB power pack.

What range performance can one expect with LabRadar?
In general LabRadar will typically measure the velocity of a 7.62 mm projectile from muzzle up to 100 yards. After extensive testing of a variety of calibers you can expect to obtain velocities at these distances when in the Standard Power Mode. Low Power setting will have about 30% less tracking*.
.177 Pellet - 30 yards;
.177 BB - 30 yards;

22 LR - 60 yards;
223 - 60 yards;
270 - 70 yards;
308 - 80 to 100 yards;
9mm - 130 yards;
40 S&W - 130 yards;
45 ACP - 130 yards;
500 S&W - 130 yards;
12 gauge Slug - 90 yards;
Paint Ball - 50 yards;
Arrows - 50 yards;
* Since every bullet has a different profile your results may vary. In general, the larger the base (excluding the boat tail) the great the distance the projectile can be acquired.


What is the Warranty period?
One year from date of purchase.

What data does LabRadar provide?
LabRadar provides minimum/maximum velocities, extreme spread, average velocity and standard deviation of a shot series. Velocities are constantly tracked and recorded at various distances along the flight path. The user will be able to define the distances he would like the velocities displayed. You will also be able to download all the shot and series data to a CSV file.

How reliable is the LabRadar?
Infinition, the company that created and manufactures the LabRadar has been designing and manufacturing high end instrumentation radars for more than a decade. Infinition’s high end radars are used daily by professionals at various Research Centers, Ballistic Laboratories and Proving Grounds around the world. The LabRadar has been built from the same technology inside Infinition’s high end radars and brings that technology in the hands of the shooters and hunters, providing an accurate and reliable way to measure the velocity of various projectiles.

Can the LabRadar be used with bows and crossbows?
Yes, when used in the Doppler mode the arrow acts as the trigger when it enters the radar beam. This is generally 6-10 feet downrange. It will continue to track the arrow for approximately 60 yards. When in the Trigger Mode an adapter can be used on the bow to communicate with LabRadar. The adapter will trigger the radar in the release of the arrow.

At what distances will LabRadar report velocities
LabRadar will report the muzzle velocity and up to five other velocities at the distances that you select in increments of one (1). You will be able to select these distances prior to shooting. You can select feet, yards, meters, etc. Velocities can also be reported in metric and standard values.

Does LabRadar work with shotguns
Currently LabRadar will obtain velocities from most Slug type projectiles. At this time it will not read multiple pellet projectiles.


Can Labradar be sold outside of the U.S.
Yes, however due to foreign government regulations units sold outside of the United States, Canada and Australia and NZ will be set to the low power setting. The accuracy of Labradar remains the same, but the ability to track the projectile will be reduced by approximately 30%. Currently all units are being sold in the US and Canada. Export sales will begin sometime in 2016.

Will LabRdar pick up shot from other shooters?
LabRadar accuracy will not be affected by other shots being fired into your radar beam. Part of the technology built into the system allows it to determine if the shot came from very near the radar unit or if it came in from another location. Since the radar tracking is only active for a fraction of a second it is nearly impossible for you to receive a velocity from another shooter nearby. Your unit also has an adjustment in it to "turn off" most gunshots that are nearby, yet allow your shot to operate the unit. In rare cases your unit may trigger on another shooters muzzle blast. If this occurs you can easily delete that shot from your data.

Where can I obtain a Users Manual
There is a download link on the top right area of the Home Page. With this link you can download the latest Users Manual and firmware upgrades.

How do I start a new series?
If your in the armed view, press and hold the armed button for 2-3 seconds and the Series screen will be displayed. You can now press the New Series button and confirm your desire to start a new series.

How do I get to the Preferences Menu?
Press the top left button if you are in the Series View. If you are in the Armed View press and hold the Armed button for 2-3 seconds and you will be taken to the Series View. You can then press the Preferences Menu button.
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#4 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:52 pm

Robbie uses one in Canada for everything .50BMG to .177 JH P800X at 785.
He Is a dealer for them, designed in Canada made in US?

Some problems to over come like metallic objects, pace makers but got to be better than any other chrono used in uncontrolled conditions that liable to change and give ficticeous readings in seconds by as much as 25%. Even my CED with IR not accurate outdoors reads low in normal day light, worst the Caldwell IR, Canadian, Skans, Bluechron, Combro and PalChrono which just about means everything is not to be trusted.
Think March UK our dealer.
If a jobs worth doing, do it right or not at all.
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#5 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:00 am

As covered in USA article now ;) - http://hardairmagazine.com/news/product ... ar-system/
Labradar-2.jpg
Labradar is a system that measures the velocity of multiple projectiles, including airgun pellets as well as bullets fired from firearms. It’s relatively new on the market and offers some interesting benefits for airgunners.

This is a “first look” at Labradar. Hard Air Magazine plans to run a proper test of the Labradar system in future.

Most serious air rifle shooters are familiar with the benefits of a chronograph – being able to measure the velocity of a fired pellet. Labradar takes this one stage further. It uses a different technology to chronographs and offers the potential benefit of being able to monitor the pellet’s velocity at more than one point during it’s flight.

Traditional chronographs measure a pellet’s speed using photo electric sensors. Labradar does it using a radar system.

In principal, this means Labrador could be the ideal tool to determine those elusive Ballistic Coefficients for pellets!

But before we bring you a comprehensive test of the system, let’s take a look at the product itself…

As you can see from our heading photograph, above, Labradar is supplied securely packaged in a nicely-printed box. The unit itself looks something like a digital theodolite. It’s designed to be used on a photographic tripod. Alternatively, it can be attached to a Bench Mount, as you can see below.


Labradar-5.jpg
This is the Bench Mount alone. The unit screws into the 1/4-inch x 20 thread on top of the ball mount.


Labradar-3.jpg
In order to be used with an airgun, there’s an accessory microphone kit that amplifies the sound. This is particularly necessary with silenced air rifles and allows the unit to sense the shot being fired. The Airgun Trigger Adapter clips to the side of the main unit in use.

Labradar-4.jpg
Labradar provides a readout of velocity on the built-in LCD screen. But it’s clear that the power of the system is really utilized to the full if it’s connected to a computer (PC or Mac). In that way, a large amount of data can be downloaded into a spreadsheet for subsequent analysis and manipulation.

Labradar-6.jpg
Before getting started, we had to go shopping. Labradar requires 6 x AA batteries. Alternatively it can be powered by a portable cellphone battery pack.

If you plan to use the computer download capability, you’ll also need to add additional memory. This takes the form of a SDHC card. This is the type of card that’s used to record photographs in digital cameras. Only a small capacity card is required for Labradar. The HAM team planned to buy one for this test, but then found that we could use an old, redundant, card from a disused digital camera. You may find the same.
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#6 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:17 pm

March UK have loaned SEFTA a Labrador and a mic for testing about two months ago.
Hope it gets passed ok to use at next meeting and put pay once and for all the inconsistencies in led type chronos which are as good as useless.
I just feel for the people travelling to this years Worlds in September and being forced in to using the supplied R3 who refuse any support on previous products. Problem is led type alter readings given in seconds dependant upon the light ambient or not. My beef is the people travelling from afar ie New Zealand, hotels, air fayres etc to be kicked out of the competition they entered when rifle used well within the limit or give a low reading, shooter ups power or cant then finds shooting at 840 later in the day that registers 770 now and blame the rifle.
If a jobs worth doing, do it right or not at all.
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#7 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:23 pm

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#8 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:55 am

I have the LabRadar on test from Gary at March at the moment.

It was used at the ETL 80 for data gathering alongside an Air Chrony.

Results was excellent, could read any rifle no problem, even the very quiet ones, you do have to position the rifle carefully if fitted with a silencer.

As it measures velocity downrange you gather more info than any current chrono available.

Sample of data from one shot.
Device ID LBR-0024769
Series No 5
Shot No 13

Time (s) Vel (fps) Dist (yd) SNR
0 789.38 0 -
0.021021 769.88 5.41 33.72
0.023021 768.2 5.92 34.71
0.025021 766.33 6.43 34.59
0.027021 764.73 6.94 34.67
0.029021 762.6 7.45 33.74
0.031021 760.55 7.96 33.61
0.033021 758.72 8.47 33.48
0.035021 757.35 8.97 33.32
0.037021 755.67 9.48 32.56
0.039021 753.3 9.98 31.14
0.041021 751.31 10.48 31.24
0.043021 749.45 10.98 31.76
0.045021 748.16 11.48 30.61
0.047021 746.65 11.98 31.09
0.049021 744.64 12.48 28.95
0.051021 742.99 12.97 28.28
0.053021 740.68 13.47 28.32
0.055021 738.79 13.96 28.2
0.057021 736.53 14.45 27.61
0.059021 735.38 14.94 27.44
0.061021 733.55 15.43 26.6
0.063021 731.33 15.92 25.89
0.065021 730.51 16.41 25.55
0.067021 728.59 16.89 25.84
0.069021 726.07 17.38 25.56
0.071021 725.5 17.86 23.22
0.073021 723.51 18.35 23.11
0.075021 722 18.83 24.1
0.077021 720.6 19.31 23.38
0.079021 717.76 19.79 24.26
0.081021 716.17 20.27 23.65
0.083021 714.63 20.74 22.46
0.085021 711.76 21.22 22.77
0.087021 711.54 21.69 22.17
0.089021 707.97 22.17 21.83
0.091021 708.98 22.64 22.09
0.093021 706.98 23.11 22.15
0.095021 703.76 23.58 19.75
0.097021 702.31 24.05 19.72
0.099021 702.18 24.52 21.28
0.101021 699.05 24.98 17.8
0.103021 697.94 25.45 17.88
0.105021 695.15 25.91 17.75
0.107021 696.79 26.38 18.76
0.109021 694.9 26.84 17.84
0.111021 690.8 27.3 16.13
0.113021 690.59 27.76 19.27
0.115021 689.63 28.22 14.58
0.117021 692.31 28.69 14.99
0.119021 684.49 29.14 19.69
0.121021 687.64 29.6 13.11
0.123021 685.8 30.06 14.39
0.125021 679.22 30.51 15.09
0.127021 690.62 30.97 7.99
0.135021 684.06 32.8 9.21
0.139021 670.01 33.71 10.71
0.143021 666.77 34.6 10.07
0.157021 655.53 37.68 10.12

Next I will be testing using a Caldwell, Prochrono and the AirChrony.

Will post the results here.
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"That was a test I was carrying out, the Air Chrony is the closest to the LabRadar but the LadRadar wins hands down overall."
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#9 Re: Why I love the USA - Doppler Radar used in Benchrest

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:10 pm

Having tried it and seeing various rifles used last Friday, it was a revelation to at last have something remotely accurate.
We did at first have a steel gate in the way at 35 yards and may have caused some grief. Duly moved and angled to the side proved faultless except most shooters fired straight in front not at 90 degrees to should i call it chrono and failed to register going out of the 15 degree spectrum of radar.

Personally i would like to do more testing but it never failed once to register my P800X and no stupid results given that you get on 'all other chronos' used in uncontrolled conditions. Led type chronos uncontrolled can and will give any reading dependant upon the lighting, hate to think what will happen with the R3 used at this years Worlds and told to put muzzle point blank registering muzzle blast speed, just the job when some have travelled 12000 miles!

For me it was preference to shoot over the top of the mic rather than to the side of it.

Other feature i didnt latch on to until seen was the ability to record not only pellet at muzzle speed but at various ranges to 40 yards. What this means is its quick and easy to find decent batches of pellets.
A rifle i was running in for Turkey i just picked up some old Daystate from 2005, 30 yard zero and away after 3 shots. Soon realised it needed more than 2 dots top of kill at 55 yards and thought extremely poor BC, i will check later.
Good BC has around 46 to 60ft/sec drop at 30 yards, those JSB made Daystate Mozzies had 180 ft/sec drop at 30 yards - unreal. These were still predictable constantly taking between 5 and 7 o clock out of a 40mm kill at 55.
Some old Lazadomes from 2007 i couldnt group within 9" at 47 yards were quite good in the running in rifle and showed BC of 70 ft/sec drop at 30 yards. Needed 1 1/2 dots top of kill 10mag.
The 2011 World winning pellets used had a BC of 48 ft/sec drop at 30 yards and required 1 dot top of kill to land on or just below centre line.
If a jobs worth doing, do it right or not at all.

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